1 00:00:01,768 --> 00:00:04,903 PREVIOUSLY IN THE DISAPPEARANCE OF MAURA MURRAY 2 00:00:05,673 --> 00:00:06,505 - If you knew her, you would fall in love. 3 00:00:06,574 --> 00:00:08,707 She was the sweetest child 4 00:00:08,776 --> 00:00:11,877 Thirteen years ago, Maura Murray left her dorm 5 00:00:11,946 --> 00:00:13,979 University of Massachusetts 6 00:00:14,048 --> 00:00:15,814 and left for New Hampshire 7 00:00:15,883 --> 00:00:18,517 far from the university and away from home. 8 00:00:22,823 --> 00:00:24,556 She crashed the car... 9 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:27,793 and then evaporated. 10 00:00:28,996 --> 00:00:31,730 I investigate theories of what could have been 11 00:00:31,799 --> 00:00:34,833 happen to Maura and the deeper I dig, 12 00:00:34,902 --> 00:00:37,302 the more mysterious this matter becomes. 13 00:00:39,774 --> 00:00:41,540 - Understand that all the people you talk to 14 00:00:41,609 --> 00:00:44,143 they all have reasons to lie to you. 15 00:00:45,212 --> 00:00:47,112 Writer James Renner 16 00:00:47,181 --> 00:00:50,749 wrote that her family is hiding secrets. 17 00:00:50,818 --> 00:00:54,820 I talked to my family, but for now no clues. 18 00:00:54,889 --> 00:00:56,121 - I just want people to understand 19 00:00:56,190 --> 00:00:58,757 that it really, really hurts for all of us 20 00:00:58,826 --> 00:01:01,660 There is also one missing hour that night 21 00:01:01,729 --> 00:01:03,362 when Maura left. 22 00:01:03,431 --> 00:01:05,531 Was she herself or with someone... 23 00:01:05,599 --> 00:01:08,300 I think this is the key question. 24 00:01:08,369 --> 00:01:10,836 Has Maura dated anyone? 25 00:01:10,905 --> 00:01:14,106 The bus driver says that she refused help. 26 00:01:14,175 --> 00:01:16,775 Does it tell the whole story? 27 00:01:16,844 --> 00:01:20,446 Seven minutes after he left, she evaporated. 28 00:01:22,383 --> 00:01:25,117 Oh God! 29 00:01:25,653 --> 00:01:28,587 Or is Maura alive, as some people assume? 30 00:01:28,656 --> 00:01:31,590 And if this is so, then where did she run away? 31 00:01:31,659 --> 00:01:32,791 And why? 32 00:01:46,580 --> 00:01:49,780 THE DISAPPEARANCE OF MAURA MURRAY 33 00:01:54,348 --> 00:01:57,149 - This is the case, it puts pressure on you 34 00:01:57,218 --> 00:01:59,685 You become obsessed with him. 35 00:01:59,753 --> 00:02:03,288 And you will go crazy too. 36 00:02:04,091 --> 00:02:05,791 James Renner interviewed many people 37 00:02:05,860 --> 00:02:07,259 for his book about Maura, 38 00:02:07,328 --> 00:02:10,162 including the police and Maura's friends. 39 00:02:10,231 --> 00:02:13,899 He also created an Internet resource so that people 40 00:02:13,968 --> 00:02:16,535 could write their ideas about what happened 41 00:02:16,604 --> 00:02:18,804 and provide leads. 42 00:02:18,873 --> 00:02:21,740 But many people think that he allowed people come up with crazy theories 43 00:02:21,809 --> 00:02:25,277 and false leads that distort the investigation. 44 00:02:25,346 --> 00:02:29,548 The family doesn't trust him and fenced myself off from him at the very beginning. 45 00:02:33,020 --> 00:02:37,780 - You can outline for me, What do you think happened? 46 00:02:39,093 --> 00:02:39,558 - What happened to Maura after the accident 47 00:02:39,627 --> 00:02:40,692 in Haverhill? 48 00:02:40,761 --> 00:02:42,494 There are two options. 49 00:02:42,563 --> 00:02:45,731 The police brought the dogs to trace her path 50 00:02:45,799 --> 00:02:47,866 and they were looking from the car 51 00:02:47,935 --> 00:02:51,670 to the road where she moved from into the vehicle. 52 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,707 There are two possible options here. 53 00:02:55,776 --> 00:03:00,212 First: she got into a stranger's car, 54 00:03:00,281 --> 00:03:03,615 or second: a friend picked her up. 55 00:03:04,785 --> 00:03:08,287 Well, the stranger had already offered to give her a ride. 56 00:03:08,355 --> 00:03:11,490 This stranger bus driver Butch Atwood 57 00:03:11,559 --> 00:03:14,660 who lives at the end of the road, which had an accident. 58 00:03:14,728 --> 00:03:17,729 Butch Atwood rode by on a school bus and said, 59 00:03:17,798 --> 00:03:19,998 “I can give you a ride, I live nearby.” 60 00:03:20,067 --> 00:03:22,267 - I asked if she was okay. 61 00:03:22,336 --> 00:03:23,969 She said she was in shock. 62 00:03:24,038 --> 00:03:26,171 I didn't see any blood on her face. 63 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,074 I said "Okay, I'm calling the police" 64 00:03:29,143 --> 00:03:31,143 - She said "No, no, I already called the service" 65 00:03:31,212 --> 00:03:33,011 He realized that this was a lie because 66 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,047 there is no cell service there. 67 00:03:35,115 --> 00:03:38,383 Also take into account, what is Fave Westman 68 00:03:38,452 --> 00:03:40,786 watching across the road. 69 00:03:40,854 --> 00:03:44,056 There is John Marrott also an observer. 70 00:03:44,124 --> 00:03:46,558 And Atwood. 71 00:03:46,627 --> 00:03:48,660 Fave and Tim Westman. 72 00:03:48,729 --> 00:03:50,562 John and Virginia Marrott. 73 00:03:50,631 --> 00:03:52,764 Butch and Barbara Atwood. 74 00:03:52,833 --> 00:03:54,833 These are the people who lived next door 75 00:03:54,902 --> 00:03:56,468 with the scene of the accident. 76 00:03:56,537 --> 00:03:58,470 They looked from the windows. 77 00:03:58,539 --> 00:04:01,206 I depicted three illuminated houses, 78 00:04:01,275 --> 00:04:03,041 three witnesses who observed what was happening 79 00:04:03,110 --> 00:04:06,478 and there is a beam of light that reaches 80 00:04:06,547 --> 00:04:08,247 to the scene of the accident. 81 00:04:09,049 --> 00:04:10,515 Nobody was watching all the time 82 00:04:10,584 --> 00:04:12,684 but people looked back and forth. 83 00:04:12,753 --> 00:04:15,654 This gives Maura a small window. 84 00:04:15,723 --> 00:04:17,522 to disappear. 85 00:04:17,591 --> 00:04:21,260 We talk for 15-20 seconds 86 00:04:21,328 --> 00:04:22,728 Which is more likely? 87 00:04:22,796 --> 00:04:26,198 That she got into a stranger's car? 88 00:04:26,267 --> 00:04:28,700 If it were a stranger 89 00:04:28,769 --> 00:04:30,569 there would be a conversation. 90 00:04:30,638 --> 00:04:32,004 "Hey, what's wrong, are you okay?" 91 00:04:32,072 --> 00:04:33,171 "Yes, everything is fine." 92 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:34,406 "Do you need a ride?" 93 00:04:34,475 --> 00:04:36,174 "Yes, let me take the things," and all that 94 00:04:36,243 --> 00:04:37,476 - Would anyone see this? 95 00:04:37,544 --> 00:04:39,278 - Someone would have seen this 96 00:04:39,346 --> 00:04:43,615 So what we have left is more likely 97 00:04:43,684 --> 00:04:47,686 In total, a person she knew took her. 98 00:04:47,755 --> 00:04:52,291 If she knew who drove up, 99 00:04:52,359 --> 00:04:55,127 then communication would be quick. 100 00:04:55,195 --> 00:04:56,862 She could jump quickly 101 00:04:56,930 --> 00:04:58,830 and they would have left. 102 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,367 But what was she doing in the White Mountains? first of all? 103 00:05:02,436 --> 00:05:05,304 - This is what I hope we will find out, 104 00:05:05,372 --> 00:05:07,339 Why exactly did she go there? 105 00:05:08,509 --> 00:05:09,174 Yes. 106 00:05:09,243 --> 00:05:10,609 She collected all her things. 107 00:05:10,678 --> 00:05:12,177 Everything was in boxes. 108 00:05:12,246 --> 00:05:17,249 On the boxes was a letter for Bill, her boyfriend, 109 00:05:17,318 --> 00:05:20,352 which spoke of his betrayal. 110 00:05:20,421 --> 00:05:21,386 Here's the message 111 00:05:21,455 --> 00:05:25,557 "That's why I'm leaving." 112 00:05:26,293 --> 00:05:29,428 I think I've come to a conclusion... 113 00:05:29,496 --> 00:05:30,929 that she was running away. 114 00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:35,067 Maura and Bill met in West Point 115 00:05:35,135 --> 00:05:37,402 She started studying there before the transfer 116 00:05:37,471 --> 00:05:40,238 to Umass to study medicine. 117 00:05:40,307 --> 00:05:43,508 Before her disappearance, Bill told the press what's up with Maura 118 00:05:43,577 --> 00:05:47,045 had a wonderful relationship and they were going to get married. 119 00:05:47,114 --> 00:05:50,082 But James Renner has a different story. 120 00:05:50,484 --> 00:05:52,584 Did they have a good relationship? 121 00:05:52,653 --> 00:05:55,287 - Their relationship was toxic 122 00:05:55,356 --> 00:05:57,656 All Maura's loved ones 123 00:05:57,725 --> 00:06:01,860 tried to distance her from Bill because they knew that he was causing problems 124 00:06:01,929 --> 00:06:04,830 Her old friends friends from Yumassa 125 00:06:04,898 --> 00:06:07,666 they didn't like Bill because of his attitude towards her. 126 00:06:07,735 --> 00:06:10,001 My interview with Mara's sister, Julie 127 00:06:10,070 --> 00:06:11,269 confirms this. 128 00:06:11,338 --> 00:06:12,971 -He wasn't my favorite 129 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,873 I wasn't happy with what was possible 130 00:06:14,942 --> 00:06:15,974 he cheated on Maura. 131 00:06:16,043 --> 00:06:20,011 I said "you need to move on" 132 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:21,179 She's my little sister 133 00:06:21,248 --> 00:06:23,548 I will protect her. 134 00:06:23,617 --> 00:06:25,784 When Rener was writing his book, he found 135 00:06:25,853 --> 00:06:29,921 a loud statement on Bill. 136 00:06:29,990 --> 00:06:33,959 - Bill retired from work in 2011, I believe it was 137 00:06:34,020 --> 00:06:40,280 because he raped a woman there. 138 00:06:40,567 --> 00:06:43,735 I heard this story from four women 139 00:06:43,804 --> 00:06:44,836 with whom he worked. 140 00:06:45,906 --> 00:06:48,273 They told me a lot of different stories about Bill. 141 00:06:48,342 --> 00:06:51,009 which led me to the fact that Maura 142 00:06:51,078 --> 00:06:53,912 there was a reason to run away. 143 00:06:54,815 --> 00:06:59,017 I spoke to Bill and he said he was aware of it. 144 00:06:59,086 --> 00:07:02,421 accusations that he was coming home from work 145 00:07:02,489 --> 00:07:05,223 Renner asserts in his books that Bill was not only 146 00:07:05,292 --> 00:07:09,127 a womanizer, he also had a delusion of control. 147 00:07:09,196 --> 00:07:11,830 He believes that Maura left because of him to New Hampshire 148 00:07:11,899 --> 00:07:14,966 that cold February night in 2004. 149 00:07:15,035 --> 00:07:16,902 - Was she going to meet someone? 150 00:07:16,970 --> 00:07:19,137 This is a big question for me. 151 00:07:19,206 --> 00:07:22,340 - In general, I believe that Maura traveled in tandem 152 00:07:22,409 --> 00:07:24,075 that day. 153 00:07:24,144 --> 00:07:28,213 - Who do you think was in tandem? 154 00:07:28,282 --> 00:07:30,148 Do you have any theories? 155 00:07:30,217 --> 00:07:34,052 - A woman who worked in a grocery store in 156 00:07:34,121 --> 00:07:39,391 Haverhill thinks she served Maura and two other girls 157 00:07:39,460 --> 00:07:40,592 same age. 158 00:07:40,661 --> 00:07:42,027 They bought alcohol. 159 00:07:42,095 --> 00:07:43,929 And this happened in half an hour 160 00:07:43,997 --> 00:07:46,698 before the accident in Haverhill. 161 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,140 There is one missing hour 162 00:07:50,504 --> 00:07:52,871 Could this explain the lack of time? 163 00:07:53,674 --> 00:07:55,674 If she was with a friend, 164 00:07:55,742 --> 00:07:59,044 What does she know about where Maura was going? 165 00:08:00,848 --> 00:08:02,948 I'm sure Maura definitely did. 166 00:08:03,016 --> 00:08:04,516 friends about where he is going. 167 00:08:04,585 --> 00:08:07,953 And the only reason why they are silent all these years 168 00:08:08,021 --> 00:08:09,855 it's to protect Maura. 169 00:08:09,923 --> 00:08:13,191 - What do you think Maura was running from? 170 00:08:13,260 --> 00:08:14,993 and needed protection? 171 00:08:15,062 --> 00:08:17,696 - I think Maura is alive... 172 00:08:18,799 --> 00:08:22,267 and I think she was running from the man in her life. 173 00:08:22,336 --> 00:08:25,270 I think Maura found out she was pregnant. 174 00:08:27,908 --> 00:08:30,208 - Why do you think so? 175 00:08:30,277 --> 00:08:32,177 - The police think so 176 00:08:32,246 --> 00:08:35,046 They found queries on her computer, 177 00:08:35,115 --> 00:08:38,149 about the effect of alcohol on a child. 178 00:08:38,218 --> 00:08:41,019 And I think Bill was the father. 179 00:08:42,055 --> 00:08:45,123 And I think she didn't want this relationship 180 00:08:45,192 --> 00:08:47,526 and didn't want Bill to be 181 00:08:47,594 --> 00:08:50,028 somehow connected to the child. 182 00:08:50,097 --> 00:08:53,999 Therefore, I believe that she is hiding to this day. 183 00:08:55,335 --> 00:08:57,669 Renner also suggests that she was running not only from 184 00:08:57,738 --> 00:09:01,473 boyfriend, but also from another man in your life: 185 00:09:01,542 --> 00:09:03,608 his father. 186 00:09:04,211 --> 00:09:06,545 Why didn't she want anything to do with Fred? 187 00:09:06,613 --> 00:09:08,313 From what I learned they were close 188 00:09:08,382 --> 00:09:10,582 and were like best friends. 189 00:09:10,651 --> 00:09:13,184 Fred could be very tough 190 00:09:13,253 --> 00:09:16,888 He programmed girls to become track stars. 191 00:09:16,957 --> 00:09:19,324 and they became them. 192 00:09:20,093 --> 00:09:22,594 Fred made them run every day, every day. 193 00:09:22,663 --> 00:09:24,863 Even at Christmas, get out and run 194 00:09:24,932 --> 00:09:27,732 So I think she was always under pressure 195 00:09:27,801 --> 00:09:29,100 for one reason or another. 196 00:09:29,169 --> 00:09:31,803 This is the shadow of her life 197 00:09:31,872 --> 00:09:34,639 - Fred pushed the girls 198 00:09:34,708 --> 00:09:37,275 - We didn't want to disappoint our father. 199 00:09:37,344 --> 00:09:40,011 We wanted him to be proud 200 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,546 - Was he just cruel? 201 00:09:41,615 --> 00:09:44,583 Are you watching these old interviews that he addresses? 202 00:09:44,651 --> 00:09:46,284 Maura looks over the camera and says... 203 00:09:46,353 --> 00:09:48,853 - Listen child, if you hear this, 204 00:09:48,922 --> 00:09:52,123 we'll just work on it all like we've always done, 205 00:09:52,192 --> 00:09:54,960 until we fix it. 206 00:09:55,028 --> 00:09:57,262 Please don't be afraid 207 00:09:58,298 --> 00:10:01,232 - He knows that she had a reason to leave. 208 00:10:01,301 --> 00:10:04,002 Before I wrote anything about this matter, 209 00:10:04,071 --> 00:10:05,203 I contacted Fred. 210 00:10:05,272 --> 00:10:06,438 And in response I received 211 00:10:06,506 --> 00:10:09,140 "No, we don't want a book written about this." 212 00:10:09,209 --> 00:10:12,177 - What do you think Fred was hiding? 213 00:10:12,245 --> 00:10:15,981 - Every family has its own, its own problems. 214 00:10:16,049 --> 00:10:18,149 I don't think I can say much about Freda Murray. 215 00:10:18,218 --> 00:10:20,151 because I never had the opportunity to sit with him 216 00:10:20,220 --> 00:10:21,953 in one room. 217 00:10:22,823 --> 00:10:24,923 But Renner's theory about why Maura ran away 218 00:10:24,992 --> 00:10:26,992 goes even deeper than problems 219 00:10:27,060 --> 00:10:29,427 with boyfriend or father. 220 00:10:31,298 --> 00:10:32,764 Maura got into trouble at West Point 221 00:10:32,833 --> 00:10:36,468 She stole from Fort Knox 222 00:10:36,536 --> 00:10:39,571 Maura Murray stole from the most secure organization 223 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,272 in the United States. 224 00:10:42,780 --> 00:10:48,560 THE DISAPPEARANCE OF MAURA MURRAY 225 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,553 Maura Murray stole from the most secure organization 226 00:10:55,622 --> 00:10:57,756 in the United States. 227 00:10:57,824 --> 00:11:00,125 Art Roderick and me with James Renner. 228 00:11:00,193 --> 00:11:02,661 He's talking about that why does he think Maura 229 00:11:02,729 --> 00:11:04,863 disappeared on purpose. 230 00:11:04,931 --> 00:11:06,698 - And she stole something minor. 231 00:11:06,767 --> 00:11:10,969 And it was very serious you know, at West Point, 232 00:11:11,038 --> 00:11:13,672 They treat violations very strictly. 233 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:17,509 When they admitted her guilt, they allowed her 234 00:11:17,577 --> 00:11:21,646 transfer from West Point in Yumass. 235 00:11:21,715 --> 00:11:24,482 That's how she ended up in Umassa. 236 00:11:24,551 --> 00:11:26,785 Why did Maura risk everything? 237 00:11:26,853 --> 00:11:28,520 took so long? 238 00:11:28,588 --> 00:11:31,656 It was as if she was asking to leave West Point. 239 00:11:31,725 --> 00:11:33,925 What problems did Maura have in Yumass? 240 00:11:33,994 --> 00:11:35,960 Let's go back a couple of months before disappearing. 241 00:11:36,029 --> 00:11:38,930 This is November 2003. 242 00:11:40,434 --> 00:11:44,569 She got caught using someone else's credit cards 243 00:11:44,638 --> 00:11:46,171 to order food. 244 00:11:47,074 --> 00:11:50,375 We're talking about stealing pizza, God forgive me, but 245 00:11:50,444 --> 00:11:53,578 Yumassa police carried out this operation, they traced 246 00:11:53,647 --> 00:11:56,314 for the pizza delivery guy at the university and 247 00:11:56,383 --> 00:11:59,384 Maura was the recipient. 248 00:12:01,321 --> 00:12:03,588 Then she appears in court, and the court says 249 00:12:03,657 --> 00:12:07,559 "If you can hold out no troubles for 3 months, 250 00:12:07,627 --> 00:12:09,494 we will erase this record" 251 00:12:10,931 --> 00:12:13,832 But this did not happen. 252 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:17,469 Two months later, and two days before 253 00:12:17,537 --> 00:12:21,740 accidents and disappearances, she takes her dad's new Toyota 254 00:12:21,808 --> 00:12:24,876 to attend a party with my best friend, Kate. 255 00:12:24,945 --> 00:12:28,580 It was one room where there were many people. 256 00:12:28,648 --> 00:12:30,215 Guys, girls. 257 00:12:30,283 --> 00:12:34,085 After the party, when Maura returned in my father's car 258 00:12:34,154 --> 00:12:36,354 at approximately 3:30 am, then she 259 00:12:36,423 --> 00:12:38,857 got into an accident right near the university. 260 00:12:41,561 --> 00:12:43,828 She should have put it in her personal file. 261 00:12:43,897 --> 00:12:47,866 A little less luck in management and 262 00:12:47,934 --> 00:12:49,801 that might be enough for the judge to say 263 00:12:49,870 --> 00:12:51,002 "You can't live without trouble, 264 00:12:51,071 --> 00:12:53,471 Now it will be in your personal file" 265 00:12:55,175 --> 00:12:57,642 But Renner suspects that Maura's plan by disappearance 266 00:12:57,711 --> 00:13:01,146 has already been developed and the party she was at 267 00:13:01,214 --> 00:13:04,582 before she crashed her dad's car may give answers. 268 00:13:07,154 --> 00:13:08,520 Tell me about that party 269 00:13:08,588 --> 00:13:09,654 I think anything could happen at that party 270 00:13:09,723 --> 00:13:12,791 I think that party means everything 271 00:13:12,859 --> 00:13:14,058 what happened. 272 00:13:14,127 --> 00:13:16,594 You talk to Kate and she says, "Oh God, it's gone 273 00:13:16,663 --> 00:13:20,365 It's been so many years, I don't remember anyone from the party." 274 00:13:20,433 --> 00:13:22,734 I say, "Really, you don't remember 275 00:13:22,803 --> 00:13:24,602 not a single name? 276 00:13:24,671 --> 00:13:25,703 "No, sorry." 277 00:13:25,772 --> 00:13:26,738 Why? 278 00:13:26,807 --> 00:13:28,239 What happened at that party? 279 00:13:28,308 --> 00:13:30,608 - Do you think there really was a party? or is this a cover 280 00:13:30,677 --> 00:13:32,143 for something else? 281 00:13:32,212 --> 00:13:34,679 - I think it might have been a going away party. 282 00:13:34,748 --> 00:13:36,614 "I'm pregnant, I have to leave guys, 283 00:13:36,683 --> 00:13:38,316 that's what I'm going to do." 284 00:13:38,385 --> 00:13:40,852 Why one of the closest Maura's friends 285 00:13:40,921 --> 00:13:43,788 did not provide enough information to help? 286 00:13:43,857 --> 00:13:46,157 Could she be hiding something? 287 00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:56,868 Fred visited Maura that week when she crashed the car. 288 00:13:56,937 --> 00:13:59,337 What was his reaction, because the car was 289 00:13:59,406 --> 00:14:00,705 practically new? 290 00:14:00,774 --> 00:14:02,707 - In an official police statement, 291 00:14:02,776 --> 00:14:04,442 he admitted that he was quite upset when 292 00:14:04,511 --> 00:14:06,477 found out about the car. 293 00:14:06,546 --> 00:14:08,413 Could this have provoked there's something about Maura 294 00:14:08,481 --> 00:14:11,816 who always tried to please him? 295 00:14:11,885 --> 00:14:13,985 For a family with a small income 296 00:14:14,054 --> 00:14:18,590 crashing a new car could be a big blow. 297 00:14:18,992 --> 00:14:19,724 - I think she's like 298 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,460 “Okay, to hell with it, I’ll try a new life. 299 00:14:22,529 --> 00:14:23,962 There's one last push left. 300 00:14:24,030 --> 00:14:26,030 This is the last straw." 301 00:14:26,766 --> 00:14:29,567 If she is alive, as Renner suggests, 302 00:14:29,636 --> 00:14:31,069 where is she? 303 00:14:31,137 --> 00:14:33,404 Ten years ago there were many reviews 304 00:14:33,473 --> 00:14:36,241 on notice boards. 305 00:14:36,309 --> 00:14:38,343 There was an advertisement where someone was returning home, 306 00:14:38,411 --> 00:14:43,414 bumped into Maura on the streets of Canada. 307 00:14:43,483 --> 00:14:46,384 There were several appearances of Maura 308 00:14:46,453 --> 00:14:49,420 in the Montreal area, near Quebec. 309 00:14:49,489 --> 00:14:52,190 I spoke to Tim and Lance a couple of years ago 310 00:14:52,259 --> 00:14:54,559 and I was like, “Should we go and have a look?” 311 00:14:59,666 --> 00:15:01,366 We went to Canada. 312 00:15:01,434 --> 00:15:05,637 We went to this music store found this woman and she said, 313 00:15:05,705 --> 00:15:07,105 “I definitely saw her here. 314 00:15:07,173 --> 00:15:09,607 "She came and spoke with an American accent 315 00:15:09,676 --> 00:15:10,608 "Athletic build. 316 00:15:10,677 --> 00:15:11,643 "I'm sure it was her. 317 00:15:11,711 --> 00:15:12,710 One hundred percent." 318 00:15:12,779 --> 00:15:15,480 We went to one sports club, 319 00:15:15,548 --> 00:15:16,948 and showed the flyer there. 320 00:15:18,060 --> 00:15:18,820 Yes 321 00:15:18,940 --> 00:15:19,980 Does she look similar? 322 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:20,980 Yes 323 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:22,700 Have you seen her recently? 324 00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:24,180 No, but it's possible 325 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,080 Three weeks ago? 326 00:15:28,094 --> 00:15:30,495 ...and the girl right away, she’s like that 327 00:15:30,563 --> 00:15:31,930 "Yes, I know her. 328 00:15:31,998 --> 00:15:33,564 I saw her." 329 00:15:34,768 --> 00:15:36,601 I think I'm getting close. 330 00:15:36,670 --> 00:15:40,338 Now you have the means with which you can investigate 331 00:15:40,407 --> 00:15:42,440 like no one else could. 332 00:15:42,509 --> 00:15:46,411 Do you have the resources and methods to get there. 333 00:15:46,479 --> 00:15:48,713 And I think you can find it. 334 00:15:49,683 --> 00:15:52,216 You know, the only person she's with Kathleen was truly close, 335 00:15:52,285 --> 00:15:53,451 her sister. 336 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,787 They had a strong connection. 337 00:15:55,855 --> 00:15:59,157 I think you should contact her. 338 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:04,529 I'll tell you what, when you find Maura, 339 00:16:04,597 --> 00:16:08,499 I would ask you not to tell anyone where she is. 340 00:16:08,568 --> 00:16:13,404 Even the police, because they will write a report 341 00:16:13,473 --> 00:16:16,074 and it will become public domain. 342 00:16:16,142 --> 00:16:19,077 And Fred Murray can read it and Bill can 343 00:16:19,145 --> 00:16:22,880 and then Maura will no longer be in hiding. 344 00:16:28,254 --> 00:16:30,989 - I'm just going crazy right now 345 00:16:31,057 --> 00:16:34,492 - Why in the first place? 346 00:16:34,561 --> 00:16:37,128 - Just how... 347 00:16:38,264 --> 00:16:42,667 not a terrible person turned out to be James Renner. 348 00:16:43,737 --> 00:16:45,603 After talking with James Renner, 349 00:16:45,672 --> 00:16:48,940 other theories like suicide or serial killer 350 00:16:49,009 --> 00:16:51,743 already seem less likely 351 00:16:51,811 --> 00:16:54,445 than Maura just running away. 352 00:16:54,514 --> 00:16:56,681 Maybe someone she knew followed her 353 00:16:56,750 --> 00:16:58,516 and helped her escape. 354 00:16:58,585 --> 00:17:01,552 With family pressure and a guy like Bill, 355 00:17:01,621 --> 00:17:03,688 she could have motives. 356 00:17:04,657 --> 00:17:07,892 He made some really convincing arguments. 357 00:17:07,961 --> 00:17:09,327 about the second driver. 358 00:17:09,396 --> 00:17:12,296 - But there is a lot of information 359 00:17:12,365 --> 00:17:13,664 we need to check. 360 00:17:13,733 --> 00:17:15,533 Perhaps he came up with a conclusion and is trying 361 00:17:15,602 --> 00:17:17,835 everything fits this conclusion. 362 00:17:17,904 --> 00:17:18,803 That's what I think. 363 00:17:19,773 --> 00:17:21,439 When I heard that Maura had been seen, 364 00:17:21,508 --> 00:17:23,408 based on my experience, people like it 365 00:17:23,476 --> 00:17:26,110 take part in the investigation 366 00:17:26,179 --> 00:17:28,212 and we need to be careful with this. 367 00:17:28,281 --> 00:17:31,916 - What do you think we should do next? 368 00:17:31,985 --> 00:17:33,684 - I think we need to determine 369 00:17:33,753 --> 00:17:35,887 Who exactly do we want to talk to? 370 00:17:35,955 --> 00:17:37,488 - I think we need to talk to Bill. 371 00:17:37,557 --> 00:17:40,224 Especially after everything 372 00:17:40,293 --> 00:17:44,162 what they told us about him. 373 00:17:46,099 --> 00:17:47,532 - Hi Bill, my name is Maggie. 374 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,435 I'm working on a documentary about Maura Murray. 375 00:17:50,503 --> 00:17:51,502 Call me back 376 00:17:51,571 --> 00:17:53,004 Thank you very much 377 00:17:54,074 --> 00:17:56,607 - We need to talk to Kathleen. Maura's sister 378 00:17:56,676 --> 00:17:59,310 They had a close relationship. 379 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:01,579 - My name is Maggie 380 00:18:01,648 --> 00:18:04,082 I am a former Umass student and journalist. 381 00:18:04,150 --> 00:18:06,617 If you could call me back, thank you very much. 382 00:18:07,620 --> 00:18:08,786 - We need to talk to Kate. 383 00:18:08,855 --> 00:18:10,755 Some friends from Umassa. 384 00:18:10,824 --> 00:18:12,290 - Hi Kate, my name is Maggie. 385 00:18:12,358 --> 00:18:13,191 Please call me back. 386 00:18:13,259 --> 00:18:14,358 Thank you 387 00:18:26,539 --> 00:18:27,271 Hello? 388 00:18:27,340 --> 00:18:28,773 - Hello, is this Megan? 389 00:18:28,842 --> 00:18:30,108 - Yes, it's me. 390 00:18:30,977 --> 00:18:33,144 Finally I connected with someone. 391 00:18:33,213 --> 00:18:35,947 One of Maura's close friends. 392 00:18:36,015 --> 00:18:41,719 - I met Maura at the first course at West Point. 393 00:18:41,788 --> 00:18:44,655 We were on the track team together. 394 00:18:46,493 --> 00:18:48,192 - Do you remember Maura having problems? 395 00:18:48,261 --> 00:18:49,861 at West Point? 396 00:18:50,697 --> 00:18:54,298 Yes, there was one incident 397 00:18:54,367 --> 00:18:56,934 which I remember. 398 00:18:57,003 --> 00:19:00,004 We were in Fort Knox 399 00:19:00,073 --> 00:19:03,174 and we were allowed to go to the department store. 400 00:19:03,243 --> 00:19:06,010 And when we walked around the store, 401 00:19:06,079 --> 00:19:09,580 the military police captured her, 402 00:19:09,649 --> 00:19:14,452 and I saw despair on her face. 403 00:19:14,521 --> 00:19:20,091 And it turned out that she stole something insignificant. 404 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,095 It was lipstick and nail polish 405 00:19:24,164 --> 00:19:25,730 or something like that. 406 00:19:26,866 --> 00:19:29,000 And when we returned, I asked her 407 00:19:29,068 --> 00:19:30,635 "Maura, why did you do that?" 408 00:19:30,703 --> 00:19:32,470 And she "I don't know 409 00:19:32,539 --> 00:19:34,238 I didn't have money to pay." 410 00:19:34,307 --> 00:19:36,641 “Did that seem unlike her?” 411 00:19:36,709 --> 00:19:38,109 Yes, that's true. 412 00:19:38,178 --> 00:19:41,546 She looked so good sweet girl 413 00:19:41,614 --> 00:19:44,315 and yes, it really surprised me. 414 00:19:44,384 --> 00:19:47,985 - What do you remember about when you found out that Maura was missing? 415 00:19:48,054 --> 00:19:51,856 Something inside was telling me 416 00:19:51,925 --> 00:19:56,794 that this could be some kind of crazy story, where is this girl 417 00:19:56,863 --> 00:19:57,929 I just picked it up and left. 418 00:19:59,132 --> 00:20:01,899 Decided to start a new life 419 00:20:01,968 --> 00:20:03,601 elsewhere. 420 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:15,280 THE DISAPPEARANCE OF MAURA MURRAY 421 00:20:22,288 --> 00:20:24,322 If Maura decided to start a new life as a mother, 422 00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:27,158 her older sister and confidant, Kathleen 423 00:20:27,227 --> 00:20:29,260 may know something about this. 424 00:20:29,329 --> 00:20:32,096 That's why she might be the key. 425 00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:34,720 Kathleen is Maura's older sister. 426 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,400 February 6, 2004, three days before disappearance 427 00:20:39,980 --> 00:20:43,120 Maura is at work and gets a call at 1:00 p.m. 428 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,140 Maura was so upset about this call. that she couldn’t say a word. 429 00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:49,860 She was broken 430 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,140 to such an extent that the boss sent her to the dorm 431 00:20:53,980 --> 00:20:57,920 The only thing she said when asked what happened was "my sister" 432 00:20:59,926 --> 00:21:02,193 What did they say to Maura on the phone 433 00:21:02,262 --> 00:21:03,995 What upset her so much? 434 00:21:04,063 --> 00:21:06,364 Kathleen never spoke publicly about this 435 00:21:06,432 --> 00:21:09,700 last call and some assume 436 00:21:09,769 --> 00:21:13,070 that she is hiding something about the call. 437 00:21:13,139 --> 00:21:14,805 We won't stop searching until 438 00:21:14,874 --> 00:21:17,908 We'll find Maura and not bring her home. 439 00:21:22,548 --> 00:21:23,581 - Hi Kathleen, this is Maggie. 440 00:21:23,650 --> 00:21:24,915 I'm trying to reach you again. 441 00:21:24,984 --> 00:21:26,517 I'd like to contact you. 442 00:21:26,586 --> 00:21:29,520 Call me back when you hear this message. 443 00:21:30,790 --> 00:21:33,491 Difficult to confirm stories and exclude theories 444 00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:36,727 when Maura's loved ones don't want to open up. 445 00:21:36,796 --> 00:21:39,330 I don't want to take just James Renner's words 446 00:21:39,399 --> 00:21:41,532 but I am faced with closedness 447 00:21:41,601 --> 00:21:44,568 especially from Kathleen and Bill. 448 00:21:48,174 --> 00:21:52,843 If people don't want to talk, maybe the evidence will say something. 449 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,447 Art and I arrived at the police station to look 450 00:21:56,516 --> 00:21:59,650 on the last known thing, which Maura touched... 451 00:22:00,787 --> 00:22:01,986 her car. 452 00:22:02,055 --> 00:22:03,421 There she is. 453 00:22:03,489 --> 00:22:04,889 She is not in very good condition. 454 00:22:04,957 --> 00:22:06,590 No. 455 00:22:08,394 --> 00:22:09,994 - So damaged after all these years 456 00:22:12,131 --> 00:22:14,432 The whole bumper is falling apart. 457 00:22:15,234 --> 00:22:18,069 - These parts have been moved so many times 458 00:22:23,042 --> 00:22:25,309 There's a card from Stop and Shop on the seat! 459 00:22:25,378 --> 00:22:27,111 Yes. 460 00:22:27,180 --> 00:22:30,815 - Look at the airbags... all torn. 461 00:22:31,451 --> 00:22:33,784 Yumassa stickers are everywhere. 462 00:22:33,853 --> 00:22:35,486 Fingerprints were taken from them. 463 00:22:35,555 --> 00:22:36,921 Fingerprint powder everywhere. 464 00:22:36,989 --> 00:22:38,656 Yes, it's so strange 465 00:22:38,725 --> 00:22:41,759 There are empty food containers everywhere. 466 00:22:43,796 --> 00:22:46,097 It's all a bit creepy, isn't it? 467 00:22:46,666 --> 00:22:49,567 - It's almost like... 468 00:22:49,635 --> 00:22:51,302 grave 469 00:22:53,306 --> 00:22:54,472 Just sad. 470 00:22:54,540 --> 00:22:57,241 Just sad. 471 00:23:00,179 --> 00:23:03,114 If Maura's plan was to run away, then its contents 472 00:23:03,182 --> 00:23:05,816 machines should give clues. 473 00:23:08,888 --> 00:23:12,990 Now Art and I have a list of these things. 474 00:23:16,262 --> 00:23:20,831 Her things in the car were typical. for a 21 year old girl in college 475 00:23:22,869 --> 00:23:25,369 Cola, chewing gum, 476 00:23:25,438 --> 00:23:26,971 ID. 477 00:23:27,673 --> 00:23:30,775 - Then her school supplies 478 00:23:30,843 --> 00:23:33,744 Nurse's books, notebooks. 479 00:23:33,813 --> 00:23:34,278 Right. 480 00:23:34,781 --> 00:23:36,147 Toothbrushes for travel. 481 00:23:36,215 --> 00:23:37,748 Shampoos. 482 00:23:37,817 --> 00:23:39,083 Deodorant. 483 00:23:39,152 --> 00:23:41,018 Lots of training equipment. 484 00:23:41,087 --> 00:23:43,220 Razors. 485 00:23:43,289 --> 00:23:44,655 Cosmetics. 486 00:23:44,724 --> 00:23:46,424 Yeah, when you look at all these things that's exactly it 487 00:23:46,492 --> 00:23:48,426 what would you take if you were going somewhere. 488 00:23:48,494 --> 00:23:50,861 - Looks like she was getting ready for a trip 489 00:23:50,930 --> 00:23:53,097 for a week or something like that. 490 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,333 If she wasn't going to come back, 491 00:23:56,402 --> 00:23:59,303 the things that were in the car seems not enough 492 00:23:59,372 --> 00:24:01,572 to leave for a long time. 493 00:24:01,641 --> 00:24:04,775 James Renner says Maura's room was collected in boxes 494 00:24:04,844 --> 00:24:07,044 as if she was going to leave forever. 495 00:24:07,113 --> 00:24:09,480 So if she packed everything, 496 00:24:09,549 --> 00:24:12,316 why did you leave these boxes? 497 00:24:12,385 --> 00:24:15,419 This doesn't make sense. 498 00:24:15,488 --> 00:24:17,455 It was the beginning of the semester. 499 00:24:17,523 --> 00:24:19,690 Maybe instead of collecting things 500 00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:23,661 Maura hasn't unpacked them yet. 501 00:24:26,199 --> 00:24:28,332 What catches my eye is 502 00:24:28,401 --> 00:24:30,501 It's birth control in her car. 503 00:24:30,570 --> 00:24:31,469 This is interesting. 504 00:24:31,537 --> 00:24:33,204 Four tablets are missing. 505 00:24:35,041 --> 00:24:38,075 The fact that contraceptives were found in her car, doesn't match 506 00:24:38,144 --> 00:24:40,878 with Renner's theory that she was pregnant. 507 00:24:40,947 --> 00:24:42,313 Maybe one of my friends knows 508 00:24:42,381 --> 00:24:44,582 whether she stopped taking birth control. 509 00:24:44,650 --> 00:24:46,217 My friends talk about this. 510 00:24:46,285 --> 00:24:48,385 - Perhaps this is another question for Kathleen, 511 00:24:48,454 --> 00:24:50,921 maybe her sister would remember this. 512 00:24:53,593 --> 00:24:55,993 We made at least 10 attempts to nominate Kathleen 513 00:24:56,062 --> 00:24:59,063 interview, but to no avail. 514 00:24:59,131 --> 00:25:03,367 We contacted another relative, Helena Murray. 515 00:25:03,436 --> 00:25:06,470 Helena is Fred's cousin and she leads 516 00:25:06,539 --> 00:25:09,607 Maura Murray's official page. 517 00:25:09,675 --> 00:25:13,644 Maybe she can help us get in touch. 518 00:25:14,714 --> 00:25:17,414 - Hi Helena, this is Maggie. 519 00:25:18,251 --> 00:25:20,784 - Do you know where Kathleen is now? 520 00:25:20,853 --> 00:25:22,853 We tried to arrange an interview with her 521 00:25:22,922 --> 00:25:25,289 and at first she did not dare. 522 00:25:25,358 --> 00:25:29,827 But in the end she said she didn't want to talk to us. 523 00:25:29,980 --> 00:25:33,740 I don't know how Kathleen is doing now. 524 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,980 I knew before, but... 525 00:25:36,220 --> 00:25:38,620 And Fred, oddly enough, doesn't talk about it. 526 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,940 Kathleen has some problems 527 00:25:45,220 --> 00:25:48,860 She can be very talkative or maybe refuse to talk 528 00:25:50,016 --> 00:25:52,917 - We think this is an important interview. 529 00:25:52,985 --> 00:25:55,286 We have this phone call that most likely 530 00:25:55,354 --> 00:25:57,721 from Kathleen, you see, 531 00:25:57,790 --> 00:26:00,524 a day or two before the disappearance. 532 00:26:00,593 --> 00:26:03,594 Was this supposedly an emotional call? 533 00:26:04,220 --> 00:26:12,440 Kathleen was drunk depends on how much she remembers about this conversation 534 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,460 She may not remember 535 00:26:15,541 --> 00:26:17,575 - Thank you Helena. - Thank you very much 536 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:18,444 All the best 537 00:26:18,444 --> 00:26:18,460 - Goodbye. - Goodbye All the best 538 00:26:18,460 --> 00:26:20,311 - Goodbye. - Goodbye 539 00:26:23,082 --> 00:26:24,315 - Interesting, she finally shed 540 00:26:24,383 --> 00:26:26,283 some light on Kathleen. 541 00:26:27,420 --> 00:26:30,521 - You know, Fred really didn't want to talk about her. 542 00:26:30,590 --> 00:26:33,624 at the interview, like Julie 543 00:26:33,693 --> 00:26:36,293 She is like a black cloud of family. 544 00:26:36,362 --> 00:26:38,596 - Like a white crow, yes. 545 00:26:38,664 --> 00:26:41,765 If she had problems with drugs or alcohol, 546 00:26:41,834 --> 00:26:46,170 maybe that's why they don't want to talk about it. 547 00:26:46,973 --> 00:26:49,340 More and more family secrets. 548 00:26:49,408 --> 00:26:52,076 If Maura has a mountain of problems, 549 00:26:52,144 --> 00:26:54,411 wouldn't it be natural 550 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,083 entrust them to one person who would not condemn her 551 00:26:59,151 --> 00:27:02,786 the supposed black sheep of the family? 552 00:27:03,823 --> 00:27:06,624 Did Kathleen know she was going north? 553 00:27:06,692 --> 00:27:07,758 - What did she do? 554 00:27:07,827 --> 00:27:08,792 Why did she do this? 555 00:27:08,861 --> 00:27:10,494 Why did she go there? 556 00:27:10,563 --> 00:27:13,063 Is she hiding it? 557 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,760 THE DISAPPEARANCE OF MAURA MURRAY 558 00:27:21,674 --> 00:27:23,107 - Hello. - Hello, Art Roderick 559 00:27:23,175 --> 00:27:24,975 A friend called us back 560 00:27:25,044 --> 00:27:27,711 Mauras of Yumass, Erin O'Neill. 561 00:27:27,780 --> 00:27:29,146 - How are you? - Good and you? 562 00:27:29,215 --> 00:27:31,248 If Maura was pregnant and intended to start 563 00:27:31,317 --> 00:27:34,551 new life, Erin may know something about it. 564 00:27:34,620 --> 00:27:36,220 - Do you work at the Cape Cod hospital?? 565 00:27:36,288 --> 00:27:38,956 - Yes, I've been working there for the last few years. 566 00:27:39,025 --> 00:27:40,557 And you studied to be a nurse in Umass? 567 00:27:40,626 --> 00:27:41,859 - That's how I met Maura, yes. 568 00:27:41,927 --> 00:27:44,428 We went to clinics together. 569 00:27:44,497 --> 00:27:47,798 - There is a lot of speculation that Maura 570 00:27:47,867 --> 00:27:49,633 I could have been pregnant when I left. 571 00:27:49,702 --> 00:27:51,869 - The police think she was pregnant. 572 00:27:51,937 --> 00:27:54,605 They found requests on her computer 573 00:27:54,674 --> 00:27:58,175 about the harm of alcohol to children. 574 00:27:58,244 --> 00:27:59,677 - They came to this conclusion because 575 00:27:59,745 --> 00:28:02,680 because she Googled these terms on the Internet. 576 00:28:04,316 --> 00:28:06,950 - Hmm... it was more likely due to the fact that we 577 00:28:07,019 --> 00:28:09,353 We attended a childbirth class. 578 00:28:10,056 --> 00:28:10,854 - Interesting. 579 00:28:10,923 --> 00:28:13,290 - We were on a mission. 580 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,360 We did what our instructor told us, 581 00:28:16,429 --> 00:28:19,430 we needed to find terms 582 00:28:19,498 --> 00:28:21,298 and send them to each other. 583 00:28:21,367 --> 00:28:23,033 - That's why I Googled these terms 584 00:28:23,102 --> 00:28:24,468 and sent it to your group. 585 00:28:24,537 --> 00:28:26,170 - Yes, we were looking for generic terms. 586 00:28:26,238 --> 00:28:28,038 And they sent it to each other. 587 00:28:28,107 --> 00:28:31,542 This is key information. 588 00:28:31,610 --> 00:28:34,511 If Maura made these requests for the assignment 589 00:28:34,580 --> 00:28:36,313 on maternal care, 590 00:28:36,382 --> 00:28:39,183 maybe she wasn't pregnant then. 591 00:28:39,251 --> 00:28:43,220 This information blows a hole in James Rener's theory 592 00:28:43,289 --> 00:28:46,890 about Maura's motivation to escape. 593 00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:50,561 Did she really run away from 594 00:28:50,629 --> 00:28:53,263 control of men in her life? 595 00:28:53,332 --> 00:28:55,599 Especially a guy? 596 00:28:55,668 --> 00:28:58,235 Does anything seem unusual to you now? 597 00:28:59,939 --> 00:29:01,271 - No 598 00:29:01,340 --> 00:29:03,040 She always looked normal. 599 00:29:03,109 --> 00:29:09,279 You know, it wasn't clear that she wanted to run away. 600 00:29:09,648 --> 00:29:11,482 And right before she disappeared 601 00:29:11,550 --> 00:29:13,217 she was doing her homework. 602 00:29:13,285 --> 00:29:17,488 She sent him the night before he disappeared. 603 00:29:19,959 --> 00:29:23,293 Maura submitted her assignment at 3:32 p.m. 604 00:29:23,362 --> 00:29:27,397 February 9, the next morning she disappeared. 605 00:29:28,868 --> 00:29:32,269 - If I were going to quit school, 606 00:29:32,338 --> 00:29:33,971 I wouldn't do my homework. 607 00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:36,673 This would be the last thing I would waste my time on. 608 00:29:36,742 --> 00:29:39,042 Maybe she just needed a break 609 00:29:39,111 --> 00:29:41,411 and she was going to return. 610 00:29:43,349 --> 00:29:47,151 Maura called and said that she needs to go home 611 00:29:47,219 --> 00:29:50,754 for family reasons and she wants to return it to me 612 00:29:50,823 --> 00:29:51,989 things I borrowed. 613 00:29:52,057 --> 00:29:54,625 and I said that this is not necessary, 614 00:29:54,693 --> 00:29:56,160 it's nothing. 615 00:29:56,228 --> 00:29:58,095 I asked if everything was okay, and it seemed that 616 00:29:58,164 --> 00:30:00,998 she's crying and she mentioned something about her sister, 617 00:30:01,066 --> 00:30:03,734 but she just said "my sister" 618 00:30:03,803 --> 00:30:06,670 and nothing more. 619 00:30:06,739 --> 00:30:08,372 - Just family circumstances... 620 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,241 - Something to do with her sister. 621 00:30:12,077 --> 00:30:16,013 Then I turned off the TV and fell asleep. 622 00:30:16,081 --> 00:30:17,915 Then there was a knock on my door, 623 00:30:17,983 --> 00:30:20,517 but I wasn't expecting anyone 624 00:30:20,586 --> 00:30:22,319 and fell asleep again, and when I woke up 625 00:30:22,388 --> 00:30:25,789 and opened the door, my things were in a small bag 626 00:30:25,858 --> 00:30:27,491 at the door. 627 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,993 She came and returned them. 628 00:30:30,062 --> 00:30:33,263 - Was this the evening she left for New Hampshire? 629 00:30:33,332 --> 00:30:34,565 - Yes. 630 00:30:35,601 --> 00:30:38,368 It was February 9, 2004 631 00:30:38,437 --> 00:30:43,507 four and a half hours before Maura Murray disappeared. 632 00:30:43,576 --> 00:30:45,142 Wow, if you would open the door 633 00:30:45,211 --> 00:30:46,343 you should have seen Maura. 634 00:30:46,412 --> 00:30:47,377 - Yes 635 00:30:47,446 --> 00:30:50,280 If I got out of bed. 636 00:30:50,349 --> 00:30:53,350 I felt guilty for a long time. 637 00:30:53,886 --> 00:30:56,520 You know, maybe everything would have been different. 638 00:30:57,656 --> 00:30:59,056 Thoughts that everything could have happened differently 639 00:30:59,124 --> 00:31:03,093 is not the only detail that Erin shared. 640 00:31:03,162 --> 00:31:07,731 She is also the second witness who confirms that Maura was upset 641 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,368 because of his sister in the days before his disappearance. 642 00:31:11,437 --> 00:31:14,171 And there is only one person who can answer 643 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,573 what was the matter. 644 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,920 Two weeks later 645 00:31:24,116 --> 00:31:25,015 Hello Art 646 00:31:25,084 --> 00:31:26,516 - Hi Maggie, how are you? 647 00:31:26,585 --> 00:31:28,886 - Finally agreed on an interview with Kathleen. 648 00:31:28,954 --> 00:31:30,120 - Is it true? 649 00:31:30,189 --> 00:31:31,755 Kathleen did not give interviews to anyone 650 00:31:31,824 --> 00:31:33,590 more than ten years. 651 00:31:33,659 --> 00:31:35,692 - If we understood what happened during 652 00:31:35,761 --> 00:31:38,395 That call, we would have answered a lot of questions. 653 00:31:38,464 --> 00:31:41,932 - There is one former KGB agent, Evi Pompauras, 654 00:31:42,001 --> 00:31:45,002 which is known in law enforcement circles, 655 00:31:45,070 --> 00:31:48,538 she specializes in interviews, negotiations, 656 00:31:48,607 --> 00:31:50,040 polygraphs. 657 00:31:50,109 --> 00:31:53,310 I think it would be interesting to take her with me 658 00:31:53,379 --> 00:31:57,681 so we can help Kathleen remember 659 00:31:57,750 --> 00:32:00,250 What exactly was the phone call about? 660 00:32:07,326 --> 00:32:08,959 Hello. Evie? 661 00:32:09,028 --> 00:32:10,460 - Hello, Evie Pompauras, nice to meet you.. 662 00:32:10,529 --> 00:32:11,662 - Art Roderick, nice to meet you. 663 00:32:11,730 --> 00:32:12,996 - Hi Maggie, nice to meet you. 664 00:32:13,065 --> 00:32:13,997 Hello Maggie. 665 00:32:14,066 --> 00:32:15,332 Evie, nice to meet you. 666 00:32:16,702 --> 00:32:18,001 Evi Pompauras has more than ten years of experience 667 00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:20,904 conducting very sensitive interviews. 668 00:32:20,973 --> 00:32:24,641 It doesn't matter whether Kathleen doesn't remember or intentionally 669 00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:29,346 hides something, Evie is taught to pull it out what we need. 670 00:32:29,415 --> 00:32:31,315 We'll show you what we have. 671 00:32:31,383 --> 00:32:32,549 - There will be cameras there. 672 00:32:32,618 --> 00:32:35,319 We'll sit here and watch what's happening 673 00:32:35,387 --> 00:32:37,087 on these three cameras. 674 00:32:37,156 --> 00:32:39,756 I'll be with Kathleen in the room next door. 675 00:32:39,825 --> 00:32:43,060 - We can observe all the nuances of behavior 676 00:32:43,128 --> 00:32:44,428 through these cameras. 677 00:32:44,496 --> 00:32:45,595 That's great. 678 00:32:45,664 --> 00:32:48,398 - I have small headphones, so you can communicate 679 00:32:48,467 --> 00:32:50,067 with me during an interview. 680 00:32:50,135 --> 00:32:51,601 - Do you think her sister is the key? 681 00:32:51,670 --> 00:32:53,537 - Do we think she's related? 682 00:32:53,605 --> 00:32:57,207 to Maura's disappearance? 683 00:32:57,276 --> 00:32:58,709 No, but... 684 00:32:58,777 --> 00:32:59,676 She might know... 685 00:32:59,745 --> 00:33:00,944 She might know why... 686 00:33:01,013 --> 00:33:02,179 - Maura left 687 00:33:02,247 --> 00:33:03,880 - Right, that's why we want to know 688 00:33:03,949 --> 00:33:05,549 why is she hiding this? 689 00:33:05,617 --> 00:33:06,883 Yes. 690 00:33:06,952 --> 00:33:08,552 - I'll say this, everyone lies. 691 00:33:08,620 --> 00:33:09,920 Everyone lies. 692 00:33:09,989 --> 00:33:11,755 Even innocent people lie sometimes 693 00:33:11,824 --> 00:33:14,191 because they are afraid of looking bad. 694 00:33:14,259 --> 00:33:17,260 You can lie verbally but your body suffers from it 695 00:33:17,329 --> 00:33:19,496 because when you lie, you are stressed. 696 00:33:19,565 --> 00:33:23,000 So we want to see how this information seeps through the body. 697 00:33:23,068 --> 00:33:25,335 We call this information bleeding. 698 00:33:25,404 --> 00:33:27,337 - If you notice that it is possible 699 00:33:27,406 --> 00:33:30,907 I'm not lying, maybe you can help me make her remember. 700 00:33:30,976 --> 00:33:33,610 - An important part in obtaining information 701 00:33:33,679 --> 00:33:35,645 This is the ability to read a person. 702 00:33:35,714 --> 00:33:37,681 When we see that you ask questions that are possible for a person 703 00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:39,516 don't like it, we'll give you advice 704 00:33:39,585 --> 00:33:41,885 and help push her. 705 00:33:41,954 --> 00:33:43,487 We need to give an impetus to the conversation. 706 00:33:43,555 --> 00:33:46,823 - It was difficult to negotiate with her, so... 707 00:33:46,892 --> 00:33:48,158 it won't be easy. 708 00:33:48,227 --> 00:33:50,027 - Go and do your job. 709 00:34:07,770 --> 00:34:11,660 THE DISAPPEARANCE OF MAURA MURRAY 710 00:34:11,850 --> 00:34:13,383 Time to reveal 711 00:34:13,452 --> 00:34:15,986 some alleged family secrets. 712 00:34:16,055 --> 00:34:16,887 Hello Kathleen. 713 00:34:16,955 --> 00:34:18,288 Hello. 714 00:34:18,357 --> 00:34:19,089 How are you? 715 00:34:19,158 --> 00:34:20,490 Okay, what about you? 716 00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:23,627 I will now talk to a person who can 717 00:34:23,695 --> 00:34:26,630 explain what upset Maura Murray 718 00:34:26,698 --> 00:34:29,633 to understand why she left. 719 00:34:29,701 --> 00:34:33,003 Information that Kathleen may be hiding 720 00:34:33,072 --> 00:34:36,440 can help split this case. 721 00:34:36,508 --> 00:34:38,909 Tell us a little about the period of growing up, 722 00:34:38,977 --> 00:34:41,445 what was Maura like? what was your family like? 723 00:34:41,513 --> 00:34:44,114 - My childhood was wonderful. 724 00:34:44,183 --> 00:34:46,283 You know, our dad took us on weekends 725 00:34:46,351 --> 00:34:49,586 and we went hiking. 726 00:34:49,655 --> 00:34:51,888 We loved it very much. 727 00:34:51,957 --> 00:34:53,190 Camping most of all. 728 00:34:53,258 --> 00:34:56,026 It was perfect, you know? 729 00:34:56,095 --> 00:34:57,594 Those were good days. 730 00:34:57,663 --> 00:34:58,395 - Yes 731 00:34:58,464 --> 00:34:59,429 - Wonderful days. 732 00:34:59,498 --> 00:35:01,965 Yes, that's what happened. 733 00:35:02,034 --> 00:35:05,769 Maura has always been a leader. 734 00:35:05,838 --> 00:35:09,473 She was always ahead and you want to be with her. 735 00:35:09,541 --> 00:35:14,911 She is always very happy and is rarely seen sad. 736 00:35:14,980 --> 00:35:16,646 Very rarely. 737 00:35:19,551 --> 00:35:21,218 - This is not normal. 738 00:35:21,286 --> 00:35:22,719 Always so happy. 739 00:35:22,788 --> 00:35:24,321 Joyful. - Yes. 740 00:35:24,389 --> 00:35:26,690 - I want to ask you about the last time have you seen Maura? 741 00:35:26,758 --> 00:35:30,527 She was home for winter break. 742 00:35:35,367 --> 00:35:37,534 - Okay. 743 00:35:38,003 --> 00:35:39,069 - Did you see how she froze? 744 00:35:41,039 --> 00:35:42,506 - She looks to the right every time he tries 745 00:35:42,574 --> 00:35:44,708 remember something. 746 00:35:45,544 --> 00:35:47,110 - Can you tell me about what you did? 747 00:35:47,179 --> 00:35:48,912 - Yes, I can. 748 00:35:50,415 --> 00:35:51,381 - Good job, Maggie. 749 00:35:51,450 --> 00:35:53,283 She didn't like this question. 750 00:35:53,352 --> 00:35:57,287 - We were just having a family dinner and 751 00:35:57,356 --> 00:36:00,157 everyone was laughing, just you know, having fun. 752 00:36:00,225 --> 00:36:02,192 It was wonderful. 753 00:36:02,261 --> 00:36:03,160 - Everything was great. 754 00:36:03,228 --> 00:36:04,227 Everything was great. 755 00:36:04,296 --> 00:36:07,898 This is not at all realistic. 756 00:36:07,966 --> 00:36:10,634 It's like, "It's like something out of a Disney movie." 757 00:36:10,702 --> 00:36:11,668 She is also very strict. 758 00:36:11,737 --> 00:36:13,970 She doesn't move much. 759 00:36:14,039 --> 00:36:15,071 - I know, I noticed. 760 00:36:15,140 --> 00:36:16,873 A couple of moves. 761 00:36:16,942 --> 00:36:20,277 - Sometimes, when it's rehearsed and you try 762 00:36:20,345 --> 00:36:23,313 remember what you want to say, you don’t move. 763 00:36:23,382 --> 00:36:26,650 - I just lie there at night... 764 00:36:26,718 --> 00:36:29,386 and I think and I think. 765 00:36:29,454 --> 00:36:34,591 Not having answers is what kills us. 766 00:36:35,527 --> 00:36:40,830 My father needs some kind of outcome, 767 00:36:40,899 --> 00:36:43,433 like all of us. 768 00:36:43,502 --> 00:36:44,634 Yes. 769 00:36:44,703 --> 00:36:49,639 Okay, I'm about to cry. 770 00:36:51,143 --> 00:36:53,276 There are napkins here if you need them. 771 00:36:54,179 --> 00:36:55,512 - I knew it would be like this. 772 00:36:55,581 --> 00:36:56,680 Everything is fine. 773 00:36:56,748 --> 00:36:58,982 Everything is fine. 774 00:37:01,987 --> 00:37:06,890 Did she tell you about the theft at West Point? 775 00:37:08,660 --> 00:37:10,894 - She didn't talk about it. 776 00:37:10,963 --> 00:37:12,829 I didn't want to believe it. 777 00:37:14,166 --> 00:37:16,967 Everyone wanted it to be a secret because 778 00:37:17,035 --> 00:37:19,736 This is such a prestigious establishment. 779 00:37:20,806 --> 00:37:26,343 Why not just say you want to study medicine? 780 00:37:26,712 --> 00:37:28,378 But I think she spoke in her own way. 781 00:37:28,447 --> 00:37:30,981 I think West Point was too difficult for her... 782 00:37:31,049 --> 00:37:32,382 I think so. 783 00:37:32,451 --> 00:37:33,984 - What did your father think about it? 784 00:37:34,052 --> 00:37:37,487 - If they talked about it, then I wasn’t around. 785 00:37:38,490 --> 00:37:42,525 It was a shame, I suppose. 786 00:37:43,862 --> 00:37:47,831 - Was there anything that she said? 787 00:37:47,899 --> 00:37:50,467 There might be something strange. 788 00:37:50,535 --> 00:37:51,968 - Nothing comes to mind. 789 00:37:52,037 --> 00:37:53,470 She always came to me. 790 00:37:53,538 --> 00:37:57,774 That's why it's such a mystery. 791 00:37:57,843 --> 00:38:03,546 I think it's because she crashed her dad's car. 792 00:38:03,615 --> 00:38:07,984 Maybe it awakened something. 793 00:38:08,553 --> 00:38:10,520 Kathleen refers to her father's wrecked car 794 00:38:10,589 --> 00:38:14,157 two nights before the disappearance 795 00:38:14,226 --> 00:38:16,192 that night, according to James Renner 796 00:38:16,261 --> 00:38:18,428 when was the farewell party. 797 00:38:18,497 --> 00:38:23,066 - This is the only thing, it seems to me, that upset her, 798 00:38:23,135 --> 00:38:26,102 because her father said that she was crying. 799 00:38:26,171 --> 00:38:28,938 Of course she felt bad. 800 00:38:29,007 --> 00:38:32,909 I just don't know and it's killing me. 801 00:38:36,848 --> 00:38:38,581 I just can't... 802 00:38:39,484 --> 00:38:42,285 or it had to do with her boyfriend. 803 00:38:42,354 --> 00:38:43,787 I don't know. 804 00:38:43,855 --> 00:38:46,189 - Did she talk to you about Bill? 805 00:38:47,025 --> 00:38:49,359 - Yes, it was an unstable relationship. 806 00:38:49,428 --> 00:38:50,160 Yes. 807 00:38:50,228 --> 00:38:54,097 She suffered emotionally from him. 808 00:38:54,166 --> 00:38:59,469 I believe that she loved him, but did not trust him. 809 00:39:00,405 --> 00:39:04,107 We went to a restaurant and I look at her 810 00:39:04,176 --> 00:39:07,577 and she sits with such a face, 811 00:39:07,646 --> 00:39:09,446 like he can't stand it anymore 812 00:39:09,514 --> 00:39:11,181 and he sits there and flirts... 813 00:39:11,249 --> 00:39:12,549 - Flirting with whom? 814 00:39:12,617 --> 00:39:14,217 - Waitresses, anyone. 815 00:39:14,286 --> 00:39:15,985 He was like that. 816 00:39:17,322 --> 00:39:19,389 - She's opening up a lot more now. 817 00:39:19,458 --> 00:39:20,824 - Yes 818 00:39:20,892 --> 00:39:25,395 - This call before she disappeared 819 00:39:25,464 --> 00:39:29,766 she mentioned "my sister" and Maura was very depressed. 820 00:39:29,835 --> 00:39:33,370 There are guesses that this phone call may lead us to the answer 821 00:39:33,438 --> 00:39:36,506 why she went to New Hampshire. 822 00:39:36,575 --> 00:39:38,475 What do you think was bothering her? 823 00:39:38,543 --> 00:39:40,777 Why did she say "my sister"? 824 00:39:40,846 --> 00:39:42,979 She starts pouring out information. 825 00:39:43,048 --> 00:39:44,047 Let's let her. 826 00:39:44,220 --> 00:39:51,840 THE DISAPPEARANCE OF MAURA MURRAY 827 00:39:56,094 --> 00:39:58,061 After the call, Maura became upset. 828 00:39:59,297 --> 00:40:02,499 - It seems like an ordinary phone call. 829 00:40:02,567 --> 00:40:04,367 - Did she cry when she spoke to you? 830 00:40:04,436 --> 00:40:06,069 No. - No. 831 00:40:06,138 --> 00:40:08,238 - But they told me what happened later. 832 00:40:08,306 --> 00:40:09,672 - What was happening in your life then? 833 00:40:09,740 --> 00:40:12,980 'maybe you didn't understand that something could upset her? 834 00:40:13,145 --> 00:40:15,712 - I just wasn't happy 835 00:40:15,781 --> 00:40:16,546 Not happy. 836 00:40:17,416 --> 00:40:17,914 - And you told Maura you were unhappy? 837 00:40:17,983 --> 00:40:19,616 - Yes. 838 00:40:19,684 --> 00:40:24,087 My ex, we didn't get along when we were both drunk. 839 00:40:24,156 --> 00:40:26,556 I meditated, but it was even worse. 840 00:40:26,625 --> 00:40:29,325 I even asked for help because in my family 841 00:40:29,394 --> 00:40:31,661 a lot of alcoholics and... 842 00:40:31,730 --> 00:40:33,396 - Where can I go for help? 843 00:40:33,465 --> 00:40:35,999 - To the rehabilitation center. 844 00:40:37,169 --> 00:40:41,204 My ex-husband came to pick me up.. 845 00:40:42,307 --> 00:40:45,341 from the center, and the first place he went 846 00:40:45,410 --> 00:40:46,643 This is a liquor store. 847 00:40:46,711 --> 00:40:48,445 I said "What are you doing? 848 00:40:48,513 --> 00:40:51,247 Are you really that selfish?" 849 00:40:51,316 --> 00:40:52,882 - Was it in 2004? 850 00:40:52,951 --> 00:40:56,886 - Yes, it was right before 851 00:40:56,955 --> 00:41:00,723 right before the loss. 852 00:41:00,792 --> 00:41:04,761 - When you have completed rehabilitation, have you started drinking again? 853 00:41:04,830 --> 00:41:06,095 - Yes 854 00:41:06,164 --> 00:41:08,631 -Did you tell Maura that? 855 00:41:09,901 --> 00:41:10,633 - Yes. 856 00:41:10,702 --> 00:41:12,202 - And other substances too? 857 00:41:12,270 --> 00:41:15,538 - Both her legs are crossed and so are her arms. 858 00:41:15,607 --> 00:41:17,140 She is fenced 859 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,080 - This is a difficult topic for her to talk about. 860 00:41:19,311 --> 00:41:20,243 I know. 861 00:41:20,312 --> 00:41:21,845 You can see it in her face. 862 00:41:21,913 --> 00:41:25,381 - You know, if my sister told me this, 863 00:41:25,450 --> 00:41:26,950 I would be very upset. 864 00:41:27,018 --> 00:41:29,152 I'd be worried about her. 865 00:41:29,221 --> 00:41:32,355 She loved you, she wanted you you were happy. 866 00:41:36,061 --> 00:41:38,094 - That’s probably how it was. 867 00:41:38,163 --> 00:41:39,095 - Maura was upset. 868 00:41:39,164 --> 00:41:40,163 Without a doubt. 869 00:41:40,232 --> 00:41:43,366 - Yes, it would upset any family member. 870 00:41:44,402 --> 00:41:46,736 Now I understand why Kathleen never talked about 871 00:41:46,805 --> 00:41:51,140 the call, and I understood why Maura was crying. 872 00:41:51,209 --> 00:41:54,210 It wasn't because of the father or the boyfriend. 873 00:41:54,279 --> 00:41:57,380 She was worried about her sister. 874 00:41:58,416 --> 00:42:00,950 But why did she take time off to study 875 00:42:01,019 --> 00:42:04,087 and went north, in the opposite direction 876 00:42:04,155 --> 00:42:06,389 where did your sister live? 877 00:42:06,458 --> 00:42:09,092 - She didn't tell you anything about pregnancy? 878 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:10,793 - No. 879 00:42:10,862 --> 00:42:11,828 How would you react if you found out that 880 00:42:11,897 --> 00:42:13,196 that she was pregnant? 881 00:42:13,265 --> 00:42:14,531 - My reaction? 882 00:42:14,599 --> 00:42:16,432 We'll get through this. 883 00:42:16,501 --> 00:42:18,268 Don't worry, you know? 884 00:42:18,336 --> 00:42:20,003 - Don't you think she would run away because of this? 885 00:42:20,071 --> 00:42:23,039 Would she have support, at a minimum, from you? 886 00:42:23,108 --> 00:42:23,740 Certainly. 887 00:42:23,808 --> 00:42:24,574 Yes 888 00:42:24,643 --> 00:42:26,576 I think we were very close 889 00:42:26,645 --> 00:42:29,112 but everyone has secrets. 890 00:42:30,315 --> 00:42:31,848 And I... 891 00:42:34,886 --> 00:42:35,685 just... 892 00:42:39,124 --> 00:42:40,924 we love her so much. 893 00:42:48,867 --> 00:42:50,300 Yes. 894 00:42:51,336 --> 00:42:53,736 She didn't deserve any harm. 895 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,041 Now the theory is that Maura left 896 00:42:58,109 --> 00:43:00,310 because she was pregnant and too emotional afterwards 897 00:43:00,378 --> 00:43:03,479 the call just doesn't work out. 898 00:43:03,548 --> 00:43:05,481 - What do you think could have happened? 899 00:43:05,550 --> 00:43:09,686 - Just pack up and leave, something was wrong 900 00:43:09,754 --> 00:43:12,422 and she didn't tell anyone. 901 00:43:13,425 --> 00:43:16,960 - Did you tell me everything about that call? 902 00:43:18,863 --> 00:43:21,764 More on this case at Oxygen.com.